Merdith Roach, seems like you got left behind in time, there was a problen with the B3 carb long,long time agoand got fixed, the new B5 engine does not have any Carb leak and or problems and hang with the 400.00+ eng. Don't come here to bash this engine when you dont have one to talk about. My rating should be for Mr. Know everything(M.Roach) but this is all about a great engine 10 out of 10 is my rating. -//- Brake in procedure also for Neils Vangsoe-Andersen. It is in the B5 thread on RCTech.com Lot of info.
1) Normal operating temperature would be between 210 to around 250'ish degree's. I'm quoting a 40+ degree operating window because there are again quite a range of variable that can affect this i.e. weather, plug choice, pipe, track size and most definitely fuel choice. Having said that temp is secondary! Always tune your engine to get the performance that you are looking for while making sure that you are still blowing some smoke. No smoke = you are going to have a problem. Once you get your engine set with the performance that you like, take the temp and then you can use that as a reference point down the road to quickly set your motor in the range that you lik.
2) The infamous break in question lol! We're a racing company and make engines for racers, what I have found is that talk to 4 different racers and you will get 4 different opinions on how to do it lol! You wanted a detailed answer though so let the book writing begin lol!
The way that I normal do it is to set the HS needle to flush with the end of the housing and then with the air filter off, fire it up and leave it on the box. Blip the throttle a couple of times and then let it come back down to idle. Then I start to screw in the idle stop screw until I see around a 2-2.5mm air gap (opening on the slide). When you are doing this your idle speed will start to increase so you are basically going to have to start richening your low speed needle a couple of hours (until you get a smooth, steady idle) then do a couple of hours on the idle stop screw and back and forth until you see the 2-2.5mm+ air gap that I mentioned. As this is a two stroke engine, performance is always dictated by air/fuel ratio and as we are now talking about the low speed needle (remember we set the HS needle flush with the end of the housing and there is no need to touch this again for a while) if you have too much fuel (rich setting) you will have a low idle, if you have too little fuel (lean setting) you will have a high idle). It basically is a no brainer if you are too rich or lean because your engine will tell you!
Once you get a steady idle going with the large air gap that I mentioned (large air gap means a lot of air flow, to get a steady idle means that to compensate you will have to dump a lot of fuel through the engine= guaranteed rich condition and you can not damage your engine right off the bat by being too lean) I idle it through the first tank on the box. This is done basically to pump a lot of oil through the engine to flush out any metal particles in the engine and remove the minute bit of metal particles that are always released initially during break in.
Now with the radio gear on, engine off and the slide closed look down the throat of the carb and slowly start to pull the trigger. Take note of the how much throttle you are giving at the point that the low speed needle (which is connected to the slide) comes out of the spray bar (the hollow tube) on the opposite side of the carb. We will use this as a referance for tuning later on but basically what is happening is that during the range of throttle movement that the low speed needle is embedded in the spray bar, the low speed needle will affect fuel delivery (for the purist we both know that this is a simplified explanation as the fuel first travels through the HS needle circuit before going to the LS but since we already set the HS to a rich setting and will not be touching this for a while it's pretty much a mute point). At the point that it is out of the spray bar the fuel delivery (or tune) is affected solely by the high speed needle.
Then I re-install the air filter, fire up the engine and toss it on the ground. Start slowly doing figure eights at say 3 to 4 mph until you run through the tank. Then for the next tank i fire the engine up again and back the idle screw out a couple of hours. You will immediately hear the idle speed start to reduce, to compensate for this I then lean the low speed needle a couple of hours until I again hear a smooth steady idle. Once I have this I then start doing figure eights again but now a little bit fasted until the tank is empty. Next tank fire up the engine, back idle screw out a couple of hours, lean LS needle a couple of hours, do figure eights a couple of mph faster.
Basically what I'm doing with this system is slowly reducing the amount of lubricant being pumped through the engine while at the same time slowly increasing the amount of load that is being put on the engine. This I keep on repeating until I get to approximately the point that I'm pulling the trigger far enough that I know the low speed needle is being pulled out of the spray bar (remember we checked this initially while we had the air filter off) at which point your air gap (the amount the slide is help open by the idle stop screw) will have been reduced to aprox. 1-1.5mm.
Once we get to this point we now need to be concerned about the HS needle. What I then do is re-fuel and fire the vehicle up, putt it around for a couple of minutes to heat saturate the case and the chassis and then do a quick high speed run around the track (do not hold it maxed out for a long time on the straight, this is bad). I pull it back in, temp the engine and adjust the HS needle so that I see right around 200 degrees. Then let the engine drop back down to idle and see how the idle performance looks. If the idle is now fast (it has now increased) this means that you need to richen your low speed needle (for the amount of air flowing into the engine, there is too little fuel flowing into it = lean condition) don't touch the idle screw just the LS needle. If the idle is low this means that you now need to lean your low speed needle (for the amount of air flowing into the engine there is too much fuel flowing into it = rich condition) again don't touch the idle screw.
Then I toss the car on the track for another 6-8 tanks with the engine running around 200 degrees as explained above running close to race speed but rolling off the throttle mid way down the straight. Once I'm done with the 6-8 tanks doing this we would have run around 12 to 15 tanks total through the engine in all of the steps above. I now consider the engine pretty much broken in and I'll get close to race tune on the HS setting the engine around 220 degrees. Again check to see what happens to the idle speed and adjust your low speed needle to compensate if it is high or low. Run a further 6 or so tanks through the engine driving it as you normally would and you are good to go to full race tune which will be in the 220 to say mid 240'ish range and I would consider the engine broken in and ready to be pounded on.
A long explanation but using this system helps avoid one of the most common mistakes faced by newer tuners which is setting their low speed needle too lean because they have too little air gap (the carb is hardly open help open by the idle stop screw so to compensate they set the LS needle super lean easily causing damage to the engine).
I also like to use this system because I often end up tuning and/or breaking in a lot of different types of engine with people. Using this system i never even worry about knowing what the factory needle settings are or anything along those lines. I just set the HS and LS flush with the end of the housing, set the air gap so that the slide is open 1-1.5mm and fire the engine up. How it idles immediately tells me if the LS needle is too lean or rich so I set this, then check the temp after a high speed run, adjust the HS needle to be in the 220'ish range, check idle speed and set LS so that it is smooth and steady and the engine is ready to go. Takes about 4-5 minutes total on an engine that could be completely out of whack and I've never even seen or ran before lol!
3) Ours, Sirio and possibly some of the Orion ones I would think.
4) Again we did all of our testing with our own pipes i.e. the 2013 and 3014 (3 chamber pipe) but I would start out with the JP3 initially and then test the others. The JP 4 and I'm assuming the 3023 are 3 chamber pipes so these will probably be more restrictive slightly reducing the power band but increasing the fuel economy so depending on what organization you run under (i.e. if use of these pipes is required) and if you feel the engine is over powered for you these can also be a worth while item to test.
Hope this helps!
Regards,
Ron Hopkins
Werks Racing -//- the 2057 will give you like 30 to 45 sec. extra according to your tuning more time, down side will loose a little of bottom. Will reach the 11min mark. Now, I have 6 gallons in mine B5 only thing that I change is the plugs. I just opened to inspect the internals, nothing wromg, rod still with a very impresive clearance. everything like new. I guess all comes down to maintenance. Very impressive with this engine. -//- I have one of the new B5 2010 edition. This thing is a animal in the bottom end great mid and scream in all the way to the top. Run time is awesome, I got 9.30min. with a 2013 pipe and a OD97T glow plug. I can even compared it with a electric that how insane is the bottom end and in the top end have a LOT of speed, Last time I know the Vspec couldn't catch me in the drag (175ft long). Brake in was easy no need for a rod after brake it like others. I have 2 gallons of 30% Werks and this mill. Is on the spot at @ 230-240 temp. It turns a lot of head people asking what it is. There is a Lot of info on RCTech. And last, The customer support it is top notch, Ron is in the ball with his customers, very personal support, that type of actitud finish the deal. Werks B5 is a Home Run in my book. I will order a second eng. for spare. The engine have a 5 stars and 5 stars for Customer support. Thanks Ron.
This would be my 5th werks engine with good reason. The break in on the B5 was effortless and tuning has been a snap. Got my first race in and did not miss a beat all night, just like all the other Werks engines that I have had. Currently running in a Mugen MBX6 and I have no dought that there is plenty a power for a truggy. Running a B7 .21 in my MBX6T which works great, but when it wears out I will replace with the B5.. -//- I run the 053 on my B7 and it works great, I also run the B3 with a DP 086 and i lost a little top speed. Not a big deal, our tracks are pretty tight. The B5 is next..
Yeah, Roach seems to have a opinion on almost eveything on this site and other forums! The B5 ROCKS period! Not many engines out there that can touch it in fuel consumption, bottom end, top end, easy to tune, low temps, longevity, What else can you ask for, if you wanna spend $300-$400 on a engine go ahead. My recomendation is this engine for $199 and see if those high dollar engines can keep up!
Udate--- I now have 6.5 gallons thru this motor and still passes the flop test with ease. Same bearings--rod nothing changed except glow plugs. I actually like the OS P3 over the Odonnell plug. -//- Yes kortz runs this motor in his hyper 9. I have 3 gallons on mine now and no problems at all. Will buy another one soon -//- This motor is fantastic easy break in easy tune runs awsome- dont let the price fool you this motor is top notch runs more like a seven port but with alot better fuel mileage. I usually buy rb concept motors but ive found my new motor!!!!
awesome motor, it was very easy to break in fired up on the first try. This thing screams.........
These engines are amazing!! I get 7-9 gallons out of them. they are crazy fast with killer runtime. They have a ton of bottom and screaming top. Also the internals last the life of the engines. No bearing ,or rod changes neccesary. And I have owned and wore out many of these and they do not have carb issues. Or any other issues for that matter. Great engine for truggy and buggy. Hands down the fastest most reliable racing engine you can get for this price. -//- Update, got over 3 gallons thru mine. Best engine I have ever run more bottom than a V-Spec and killer top!! NEver flames out even in 30 and 45 minuts mains Super reliable and easy to tune. Have not had to mess with my needles much at all and Xlnt mileage. Big bottom great for truggies. No need to mess with your clutch to get punch on this engine. Bearings and rod still perfect! 2013 has most punch and great top, 2057 smooths out the powerband and has a bit more top. Cant say enough about this engine!! -//- Killer engine!! Got a gallon thru it, runs cool, has tons of bottom end and top end and gets 11-12 minutes runtime in my D8T truggy with werks 30% and a 2013 pipe. Very reliable and fast engine. Just as fast as my $300+ dollar engines and better runtime!
I’m very please with the service I’ve got at main hobbies an the werks.21 engine I receive have had no problems with it at all
Amain hobbies are the only hobby shop place I purchase stuff, yall rock!
Broke in this engine the way Werks covered on their website. After break in ran Byron's 30 percent fuel and had a rear bearing fail before the gallon was finished even with the use of after run oil to prevent rust. Installed ceramic front and rear bearing after that and continued using Byron's 30 percent fuel. Got 3/4 done with that gallon and the rod let go and the whole engine is destroyed. This engine was always ran at 220 degrees always ran well just doesn't last, this is the worst experience I've ever had with a nitro engine.
I have three Werks engines (including this one) and while the B6 is my personal favorite, the B5 does just what it is advertised to do...move vehicles! The best comparison I can give between the two engines is the B5 is snappier, and the B6 is linear, smooth so it's a matter of preference. I will say (along with everyone else) to get the most of of this engine run a 2013 on it. I actually ran the first two gallons with a 2058 (my personal ATF pipe), and while it performed exceptionally well, I noticed an abundance of torque when switching to the 2013. I've run this in truggy as well (a heavy truggy), and depending on your track, you won't be at a disadvantage. All the great things you read and hear about Werks engines are true. Additionally, if you want to kick it up a notch, I recommend getting it 'clocked' by CRE (http://www.clockworkracingengines.com/content/clocked-werks-b5-21-cre-wrxtl21b5) Some engines take to being modded better than others, and this one has been a home run! While mine is stock, I have a good friend with a clocked B5 and it can hang with my stock Roma!
Front bearing failed and ingested dirt in the engine
This engine rocks......for $200 you can't beat it...it gives you tons of bottom excellent mid & great top.....
Just finsh phuket souther race . Feel great for the engine and powerful .for those Asia driver kindly purchase the long needle replace at (low speed needle).will keep the idleling good .
The front bearing failed and went through the motor after just 1 gallon.
Excelente motor, facil de hacer el rodaje y prendio al primer intento.Es mi 3er motor, Bueno, estable, confiable y con mucha fuerza y torque, recomendado 100%en mi opinion no tiene nada que envidiale a los Nova,Os, o a los Rbs
awesome power in my XRAY some slight tuning problems no big deal !!!!
No problems, tons of power in my 8ight t 2.0. Everyone at my track seems to run a plus4 and the B5 has no problems staying with them all day. Very responsive engine, seems to have lots of bottom end crack. Customer service is great as well!
The best value for money engine in the market right now,7-8 minytes per tank in racing condition.
My second engine that I broke in myself and I can honestly say there is a vast improvement compared to my first GO .28. Was a breeze to start up, no flame-outs and the tune held magically well. Even without leaning out and only on it's first 1-2L I could already keep up with a mate's MG66. I believe my mate is going to buy one of these now and I'm certain that I will be buying another when the time comes.
I would recomend this motor to anyone that wants high performance at a resonable price!I have one gallon through my B5 motor and, I also bought the Werks 2013 pipe. I am using this combo for dirt oval racing and the motor gets my Losi 8 around the track, The B5 has me competive with OS speed's that have been dominating out here. The OS that used to hit me in the rear are now afraid because now I do the pushing. I still am running my motor rich 190 degrees and it still has a quite a bit of pinch so this motors has more power to come in the future. This motor break-in is very easy and I would really recomend it and the 2013 pipe is tough combo at any price!
